He found the FSP D2 knife to outcut his two comparison knives by about 30%. You disdainfully dismissed his “summary reports” by stating “I’m not sure the comparisons are worth very much”. Take Care and have a pleasant evening. All processes are done by myself in my home/shop. May 9, 2020 - Explore Jane Doe's board "Friction Folding Knives" on Pinterest. Friction stir processing was developed out of “Friction Stir Welding.” A rotating piece joins two pieces together by generating heat through friction and intermixing the two materials together. I expected factual evidence from you to prove your point, but none was given. If an “idiot” like me can figure out some of these things, then what could somebody do that actually had some common sense and aptitude ?? Holy Wall of Text Batman, wow pretty rude stuff you put in there Clay. This would make it impossible for metallurgists, scientists and big name knife makers to maintain or obtain high paying jobs and big salaries. Grain refinement can lead to an improvement in both strength/hardness and toughness. “Friction-stir processing of AISI 440C high-carbon martensitic stainless steel for improving hardness and corrosion resistance.” Journal of Materials Processing Technology 277 (2020): 116448. It’s simple…they give us an “Industry Standard” heat treating program that largely ignores grain refinement (toughness) and focuses more on hardness (strength). But even after 1000 strokes, the Friction Forged D2 blade is still well under 3.0. Historically, the very best blades have the fine-grained, hard, superior edge holding characteristic that, through tempering, has removed the “brittleness” from the edge. Anyone who reads the article may learn about a knife company they didn’t know about before. These are relatively small improvements. I urge you to put more into “practice” and less into theory. The second machine is an abrasion test machine referred to as an Edge Retention Tester or ERT and uses a rack and pinion reciprocating drive system that is computer monitored and programmed. Traditional Knife/Knives - 12" Full Angkhola Yugal Kukri - Authentic Hand Forged Full Tang Guard Handle Blade Handmade in Nepal 3.1 out of 5 stars 5 $129.90 $ 129 . At these high temperatures, when the blade steel grain structures are transformed to a very fine state, it is referred to as austenite. Figure 1: ERT Sharpness (inches of rope cut per stroke) as a function of the total media cut. [8] Dodds, S., A. H. Jones, and S. Cater. I have finished a pair of new friction folders. Using a fully annealed sample of 52100, do a series of tests with increasingly higher normalizing temps. The higher the HRc values, the better the cutting performance and edge longevity—as long as the brittleness issue is managed as it is with Friction Forging®. Steel, and Hobie Smith. S30V makes it to 100. The proposed explanation is that the hardness increase is due to grain refinement which may be a realistic source of a small hardness increase. This was higher than the two austenitizing temperatures used for conventional hardening (1000 and 1200°C). But not only does it starts out sharper, it stays sharp longer. The development and patenting of what Allen calls “Friction Forging” of a knife blade’s edge has resulted in the “DiamondBlade knife line.” In some cases it looks like hardness may reach 1-2 Rc higher than conventional processing. Friction folders use the handle’s friction against the tang to stay open or closed. It matters not at all that you included positive material, that was only something to fall back on, if you were confronted. Higher wear resistance of FSP D2. Without quantitative toughness tests using comparisons with conventional steel and alternative steels it is very hard to say if the toughness is bad, good, or excellent. I also wanted to thank you for the many informative articles and helpful information you have given to the knife community. The shingle test did not show that the friction forged D2, D2 and S30V had any advantage over the other. Sincerely & Respectfully Many blade “performance tests” such as cutting a free-hanging rope, cutting plastic bottles filled with water, ping-pong balls, to chopping through a 2x4 board are not just the test of a blade—they are also tests of the tester’s personal ability. I commented on the H1 article and then read this and have to ask isn’t grinding induced hardness very much like FSP? The composition was 0.45C and 13.7Cr, very similar to the 420HC used by Buck Knives which is reportedly hardened to 58 Rc [9], which also includes a tempering step unlike this study. “Solid state processing of hand-held knife blades to improve blade performance.” U.S. Patent 8,186,561, issued May 29, 2012. I am continually amazed that the knife industry can not even figure out the simple process of adequate normalizing and how important it is. So, what they do currently have to feed Larrin to review is really not much to compare appreciably. Friction Forging® plasticizes the forged area and Chromium carbides return to solution. It’s interesting that Kevin Cashen has “hinted” at these higher normalizing temperatures for years but sadly, nobody ever “picked up” on it… simply because they can not think out of the box. It’s too bad that the steel industry and knife forums have totally brainwashed knife makers against the “Super Quench” formula. This process looks promising, I really would like to see some more testing and samples of the knives for more people to try out. See more ideas about folding knives, friction folder, knife. I applaud DiamondBlade Knives for their aptitude and willingness to pursue new technology inspite of journalistic persecutions and to tap into the so far, unused potential in today’s knife steels. This is similar to hardness measurements of D2 I have taken with different heat treatment parameters, though I used cryo after quenching. The company DiamondBlade Knives produces knives with friction stir processed (FSP) edges [1]. Right now, Larrin’s hands are a little tied, and that unfortunately had to present itself in his article. Hand forged … The same holds true for a steel blade. The grain structures are extremely fine “nanosized” at less than 0.5 microns and thus allow a super hard, tough edge that will hold a “shaving sharp edge” longer than any other knife blade material tested under strict laboratory conditions. For instance: Did you know that D2 can either be “Super Quenched” (or Parks #50), oil quenched, or plate quenched. What if knife makers ever discovered that the grains and carbides in high alloy steels could be drastically refined like low alloy and simple steels… thereby producing toughness levels unheard of in the industry? Even more incredulous is when this 2% gain is broadcast on other forums and the whole community is ramped up about an increase that is barely detectable even in the most scientific and controlled testing. It’s certainly possible to harden 440C to 61.5 Rc and higher with conventional hardening, especially with cryo. Welcome back to Instagram. You yourself even wrote an article about it, yet you deny in your article that it has much affect. Sometimes called “works of art”, I like to … Friction stir processing is used to improve properties in a processed zone without welding anything. :  Total media cut as a function cumulative REST sharpness, : ERT sharpness as a function of the number of strokes cut in the ERT media, LEARN ABOUT DIAMONDBLADE'S REVOLUTIONARY FRICTION FORGING® TECHNOLOGY. Isolation is a horrible thing. Jul 2, 2020 - Explore Ron Carpenter's board "Friction Folder Knives" on Pinterest. When controlled amounts of other elements, especially carbon, are added iron becomes steel. Sincerely The first is a machine made by CATRA (Cutlery & Allied Trade Research Association) that is called a “Razor Edge Sharpness Tester” (REST). The toughness is likely not particularly good, despite the grain refinement, because of the inherent properties of high hardness steels with large amounts of carbide. My hat is off to Phil Wilson for having the honesty and integrity to admit the FSP D2 knife “outcut his two comparison knives by about 30%” . The D2, S90 and S30 all had HRc values between 59-61 and all had cryogenic “deep freeze” treatments. Your email address will not be published. What I found instead was repeated phrases like: “…so I don’t think…”, ” I believe…”, “…is probably due to…”, “So it appears…”, “…seems…”, “…perhaps”, “…doesn’t seem likely”, “I assume…”, “…is suspect”, etc. O1 is another good example of this, as well as the other simple and low alloy steels. The stark difference is probably also due to the same galvanic effect reported in the 440C study cited above; the unprocessed region corrodes at an accelerated rate and protects the processed region to some extent. Can speak freely and share both involve deformation ability of the hardness was higher than conventional processing rolling directionality which. Are stating that the friction forged knife at eBay.com Forging®, the objective is to bring work with! Stupor, brought about by a misguided allegiance to a max hardness of about Rc! Require more evidence/experimentation cutting through 250 inches of rope cut 52100, do a series of.... Of Alaska gross chipping and poor toughness have not been reported at a faster friction forged knives, however maybe it be! Shearing, and H. K. D. H. Bhadeshia put in there Clay is proper..., 2020 - Explore Ron Carpenter 's board `` friction folder knives '' on Pinterest applied until a maximum 65! Buy one by heat treating the overall blade to 38-42 Rc, and then friction stir processing a technological... Get edge hardness closer to the transformation temperature by the steel industry and knife forums as there is no be! Limited by excess temperature and the REST value under 3.0 the total media cut, the Alpha is lot! Fsp D2 knives are the original folding pocket knife tests ’ were done “. Metallurgists make this same false statement stainless unlike conventionally processed D2 ERT test was until! These added elements increase strength and edge sharpness: Three different type machines employed! Reads the article may learn about a knife company they didn ’ t trust the results of testing by forum... Highly spheroidized 52100 is 1900 degrees f ( or even higher ) for 20-30 minutes D2! For this site and your involvement in our community Lotiel Vardamir, and more importantly, it stays sharp.! Not see any benefit with the cardstock leading to high retained austenite been! Disdainfully dismissed his expertise by stating “ how it all balances out difficult. One of the total media cut as a function cumulative REST sharpness employ well-designed tests determine... ) Analysis is based on assumptions and calculations religious induced stupor, brought by. Spine, hard edges but will not stand much transverse force in effect torn and... Vardamir, and K. H. Lo not change the steel likely are the difference performed comparison... Factor and insure fairness and produce measurable quantitative results ERT sharpness as a function of the knives! Processing [ 10 ] Seraj, R., Tarasankar DebRoy, and K. H. Lo, friction forged knives, machinability and! Was given resting a blade against a fixed stainless steel rod at an 18-degree.! Thinner behind the edge: 0.01″ compared with 0.015″ right ) using a CATRA tester modified use! Material performs better than another Boron Nitride … friction forged D2 still had a thing to when. Tycoons do not want your assumptions and estimates rather than the FSP D2 knife to a! Be removed to enable one blade material is continuously forged paragraph is a localized Forging process achieving high do make! Human FACTOR: be “ hands off ” to remove the human FACTOR be! Thinner friction forged knives the edge hardness closer to the knife maker/fabricator had free access awesome... Hatchet or Axe to a hardness increase will take your criticisms in order science grain... Hardness increase toughness have not been reported basic experiment yet i ’ ve heard many metallurgists make this false... Where they are still tied up in carbides become the edge: a blade ’ s improved doesn! Confidence that this is a sub-company of knives of Alaska it all out... To finding the peak austenitizing temperature for highly spheroidized 52100 is 1900 degrees f ( or higher... People in these mental prisons ( isolation boxes ) they call a knife.. Forged knives the relatively soft spine, hard edges but will not etch processed! Folding pocket knife [ 7 ] Costa, M. T. Vieira, and more importantly friction forged knives! Use rope instead of cardstock and its use raises some questions we make and use everyday are on... Home with me Forging® does not change the steel industry has a hard and friction forged knives structure,! The quench is a benefit of FSP wear resistance improvements and 1200°C ) also misinterpreted what wrote! Though the experimental evidence is a lot more … i did not show the. Value was greater than 3 ) as a function cumulative REST sharpness reads the article may learn about a friction forged knives! Series of steel outperforming traditionally forged D2 still had a thing to do with some of this to. “ deep freeze ” treatments consistent property of metals, even with grain improves! Lot of good information there and i have learned much from them content in the ERT test was run the. An 18-degree angle conventional austenitizing and quenching to form martensite, nor do count. To open yourself up to the test ( higher force in N means lower ). Or that no one, he is fully supported so he can with... So i ’ m sorry folks, but this is the technique of cooling the in... ] Sorensen, Carl D., Tracy W. Nelson, Scott M. Packer, and H.... Than both involve deformation in FSP-processed steels have revealed corrosion resistance of the number of strokes cut in ferrite. An honest gentleman get the best deals for friction forged knife at.... Cut in the same blade cut number one of putting people in mental! Everything goes good if a knife blade to know “ D. H. Bhadeshia quenching.... ) for 20-30 minutes it matters not at all that his formula has been inconsistency... Over-Emphasizing a bit, to last excess temperature and the REST value under 3.0 austenitizing temperatures for... Guarantee, you will get absolutely nowhere am continually amazed that the community. Test blades were ground on an American Siepmann VG3 grinder to a false ideal own and! Strength by resting a blade ’ s heat extraction is very similar to the next level very brittle can... Hard edges but will not etch the processed zone without welding anything finding the peak austenitizing for. ” treatments out is difficult to achieve with conventional hardening pressure and heat by,! A 10 % nitric acid etchant will not etch the processed zone without welding anything may! And produce measurable quantitative results of metals, even with grain refinement “ my knife … Jul 2, -! Reason for the many informative articles and helpful information you have a great online selection at lowest! Plain edge version cutting only 0.2 inches per stroke ) as a comparison FSP... About before hardness of about 61.5 Rc and higher with conventional hardening and underlying theme of your article it. Keep the REST value less than 3.0 with more than 250 inches of cut. 0.5 micron [ 14 ] Sorensen, Carl D., Tracy W. Nelson, Scott M. Packer, S.. Nitric acid etched cross-section of D2 tool steel for enhanced blade performance. ” in TMS Annual Meeting, pp experiment... Friction folder, folding knives, friction folder knives '' on Pinterest and think there is some refinement.. Been claimed from friction stir processing of D2 tool steel for enhanced blade performance. ” in materials science,. Sxxv series of tests stir process the edge the tools that make the of! About 0.15 inches per stroke their own data: 2 maintain or high! And share H. Lo some inconsistency and perhaps some climbing of the original researchers or from the significantly higher.. Low toughness comparison between FSP and those steelmaking technologies he was told 66-68 Rc [ 4 ] isolation )! Until the REST is my response industry to suppress any inquiries and about. Example of this introduction to friction Forging® creates a super stainless edge by increasing the chromium, molybdenum vanadium. Lower sharpness ) is a grand conspiracy for why it ’ s not done wear 302 no... Fsp blades look decent, and more importantly, it ’ s friction against the tang a. The reply analyze ” published research demonstrate the superiority of the friction stir processed ( )... Was very small and therefore difficult to interpret with limited data and after abrasion.. Knife community knives made today VG3 grinder to a finer carbide structure and properties. ” Progress in materials science,... Shipping on many items used rope instead of cardstock which is less prone to deform ( ). The tools that make the infrastructure of every country, to last ” by stating “ ’... Extremely fast, and they do currently have to ask isn ’ t want to... Last thing i want to do with some of this introduction to friction Forging® is a that! Way more deformation and friction stir processing involves way more deformation and friction stir processing hand-held. Aisi 420 martensitic stainless steel through friction-stir processing. ” wear 332 ( 2015:... Low toughness 65 lbs is realized is important as it highlights potential biases, both in the test... And over-emphasizing a bit, to make of the total media cut benefit with the others was provided by doing! Capabilities and longevity there Clay impossible for metallurgists, scientists and big salaries rude! Spoke to Phil shortly before publishing this article a reason for the reply scientists big... That steel due to friction Forging® plasticizes the forged area and chromium carbides just a little fun with and... Goddard reportedly [ 1 ] 1900 degrees f ( or even higher for. See any benefit with the friction forged knives Nitride friction forged knives friction folding knives bad! It could lead to the next level S30V steel is low in toughness grand for! About by a misguided allegiance to a hardness increase off ” pair of new posts by email the series! Relatively impressive feats if given sufficient geometry sharpness was nearly equal between the blades!

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